Mobility is simply king in this game. I almost never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter playing on or against British team. It's not pleasant to head into an area that's being directly contested, but if you want to win that's how you do it. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. I'll give you a half point for this one as I clearly said the M18 will head to your spawn after it caps, Well if it makes you feel better stranger things have happened. When it comes to the points I made about the armor, I have had my AMX-13 bounce off the side turret numerous times, it really is that thick. I can go grab the pictures if you'd like as proof. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? And here comes the issue with uptiers. I'll add as a supposition (GE doesn't share the data) that Germany is probably the first nation people pick up to start. Are there plans to finally separate ww2 (and pre-ww2) vehicles from post ww2 (like vehicles made. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. And the stock ammo of the german M48A2C is the same as the US/Chinese M48A1, but somehow the US/Chinese M48A1 is at a higher BR. Selling Top German/UK Tank and Plane & US Top plane with many Premium. Hell even the FV4202 has a strong enough turret to confidently bounce long 75s and russian guns. Only salt and betrayal.Thanks for watching!Subscribe for decent content next time (hopefully). Theres was no reason to add them for almost every US tanks in War Thunder. 'German players' are not somehomogenous group, clearly people play different nations. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the []ASU 85. Not possible. Because of the above, one death leavers can be more common due to a lack of supporting vehicles to respawn with. None of this is specific to Germany or the Americans mind you. According to this complaint, Germany's mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. The M18's like any vehicle that doesn't get shot. What do you expect? T-80U only fixes armor (although weakspots veeerrry preminent), slightly better HP/T (still -10 kph reverse though), and a slightly better reload (6.5s but still slightly slower than other 120mms). Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. (If you can tell us, ofc I understand you might not be able to.) I have said quite the opposite honestly. The only real difference between the 2 is the people playing them. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. That is impossible, you need somewhat of a team. If you check old war images of M4 tanks, you will see that not all of them had turret mounted .50cals. It's as hard to shoot a the turret of a tiger 2 as it is to shoot a T series turret. Thus then other nations get the impression that Germany is both OP, but still their players while about wanting better tanks. The T-80B has ok mobility for it's BR (~25HP/T vs ~27+ for other tanks), but still has terrible reverse of -10kph wheras other tanks can go -30kph or more in reverse. Come on, you know that your arguments is purely theoretical and doesn't work on most WT maps. France truly suffers, the major trees offer too much, France needs more! On the contrary, Overall, complaints about German mobility neglect to account for the German vehicles other traits that often give them strengths other nations lack. Pretty immune to 88's. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. Otherwise we can also assume incompetent Panther players who just drive on the highest hill and stand in the open hoping that noone sees them and try to snipe enemies. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. And no I wasn't talking about the swingfire I mean the 7.7 german raketenjagdpanzer 2 literally fires the same missiles as the STRV.81 (which also has a gun) and yet sits a whole BR higher for some reason. I have a few plane kills in the KT SLA, which is even more funny as only the premium tank gets the AA roof mount. But only at long range. Considering Im an experienced player who has done quite well in some Germany tanks that have been thoroughly derided, Id lean towards saying youre justwrong. Especially when you get uptiered to 7.7. yes in the real world and on paper, but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Eh, you can get the same effect with having a slow vehicle suddenly appear where no one expects it at a particular time, it also brings a more shock and awe effect as its victims try to fathem what they are looking at and how it gotthere, thegood times to be had Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. Be always aware of this. Well technically everyone suffers but you would have clicked on this otherwise. 3. If we're going to go with just the general platitudes then it's kind of a boring discussion that you would clearly be winning if we don't take a deeper look at the issues with German mobility other than "keeping pace", whatever that means. King tiger turret is just a big flat sheet of 185mm armor. Well that's it I guess. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. The F-4F Phantom II is a rank VII German jet fighter with a battle rating of 11.0 (AB/RB/SB). And I'll give you the T29 it was worthy of 7.0 but if your gonna sit here and argue the T34/30 are suddenly worthy of 7.0 you have a biased opinion. First of all the amount of smoke the projectile generates when it strikes a target is ridiculous. Has 3 crew and carousel, so it doesn't fit survivability meta and it's armor can be penned by 9.0 premiums. And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. Now, lets address the imagined problems of Germany so that the real ones can be identified and addressed! Uptier your Panthers that can't even penetrate the side of the T__ turret? Does Germany suffer and from what? Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. Well suited for precision bombing, its 2 guaranteed kills. I am obviously a bit salty though, I've played basically every nation in WT except the USA so maybe I'm a bit biased. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. Say it in a few years and I'll take it as an excuse but until then I'd still say a solid 70% of the playerbase has them. This is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously. (Saint Nicholas Bible, CIVIC Worship The Good Book, & Queen Elizabeth II Bible are the same book with 3 different The first two points can be resolved by reforming the German tree to not have the jumps that it has and by requiring players to unlock more vehicles to progress to such higher BRs (as other nations have). If you haven't noticed I'm implying being one/two steps ahead. Yeah, i totally wonder why you never see people playing them, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. And the side of the turret doesn't really mean alot as you can still punch through it with basically the same thing as the other you die no matter what so if you good up that shot its on you. Julius, a doctor supplement for ed friend of Horace, who is there a generic viagra or cialis accompanied Claudius Nero in his military expeditions. #warthunder #shorthunder Hey! Sit in cover, spot an enemy in third person, pop out, shoot and repeat. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). You have to angleit correctly to make it work. While it is true that many people, with all sorts of involvement in other trees, play Germany it is also true that many of the people who play the German tree only play the German tech tree. panzer ii light tank military history. And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. That's just how a downtier works no matter the battlerating. Also, let's not forget that Germany has a proper line-up of SPAAs till 8.0, if you discount the gap between 6.7 and 8.0, so 1.3BR gap. The best editions of doctor oz supplement pills for ed Florus are Duker s, 2 vols. Also .50 cals have too much pen, loosing light tanks and all sorts of AA vehicles to those is no fun, especially if other nation just have to rely on their main guns. He travelled over doctor oz supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and wrote a history of the doctor for gods, in which . Powered by Invision Community. Then you have very bad chances to win as USA, since you won't be able to flank them. Most guns can penetrate it from the front. Also, you're making it sound like the T__ has bad hull armor, which it absolutely doesn't. He can get to cap first and setup an ambush. In a standard WT match, do I try to command people using the chat to go to certain positions which they won't do? (I guess this is closely connected to the two major questions above (being interactions and economy)). Hell no, you can still get kills if you have a decent team and play smart. I don't think the hull of the king tiger is worse, it's obviously better, I'm just saying it's not better by a huge margin. LORRAINE 40T AT 7.7?? While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. My guess, this is the reason some players dont like the Panther, because you can not get out of trouble fast. Their is a perfect blend of fast paced numbers (Warcurse, Escalation) and slower, more groove-oriented thrash in the vein of Pantera's Cowboys From Hell, in particular Destroy What Destroys You. It is because most of those players dont have the skill to kill and so try to get some cheap points when if they survive the cap race. Like this moments when the T95 suddenly reaches the cap point 10 seconds before the match ends. Meanwhile, in the real world, while the Tiger II is waiting for its gun to steady to take a shot, the Centurion Mk3's stabilized gun lets it point precisely at the tiger's turret-face with swift ease. Nobody likes uptiers and Germans are no exception--but theyre not suffering any more than anyone else. interactions? at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. Download Free PDF View PDF. Yeah, how is that even an argument? Also Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. In which I have to say no, it's not ONLY the Germans that have bad reverse speeds. Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. Most american team comps I see are at least 80% heavy tanks but they get away with it because their heavies can actually reliably bounce shots. Turret armor>>>hull armor for a number of reasons. If you want to do well with germany, I'd recommend playing 5.3 and below(where germany absolutely stomps thanks to a consistent firepower advantage) or 7.7 and above(where germany stomps due to a mobility advantage). It is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of understanding that having a whole bunch of people brand new out of 3.0 in 5.X is a problem. And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Lucky me you voided this argument by saying it wasn't the argument, really dodged a bullet there ^^, There is no if here, the faster tank is predictable this is a fact. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. Uptiers are a pervasive issue for every nation at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. The Tiger IIs' cannons do not bounce like M18s on trampolines, no matter how much people pretend that they do. The M18 can't ambush you if"take your time getting to the cap" they'll grow impatient then heads towards your spawn points making it easier to ambush them on the counter. The tracks make it immune to long 88 and actually work as spaced armor against HEAT. What? pzkpfw ii ausf l luchs 37mm war thunder official forum. As an experienced player who has seen matches from both sides, I know that German teams tend to be less active in their pursuit of the capture points--sometimes right from the start German teams appear reluctant to go after the caps. Relative merit is in play here. That is basically telling your enemy "I am here" and to commit assisted suicide. What do you expect? An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. And the Tiger 2s consistently bounce shells they are by no means slouches and have a thicker hull than the T series which will say no to most rounds that fly at it outside of apds which can be angled to avoid for the most part and or heat. Powered by Invision Community. I'd recommend not making part of the argument then to begin with, The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. Nope you leave them to their own meansor use them as bait if you want to be a jerk about it. I'm a regular war thunder player if you want to contact me= discord= TelDu3998we also have our own discord server https://dis. They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. Maybe I have bad luck with the 88 but lately (and I mean just this last patch) I've had a lot of 88s penetrate the T34 and just get absorbed by the breech without exploding. Is this what we might expect at some point? Despite the hype, Allied fighter-bombers are not hypermaneuverable UFOs when they're laden with their payloads--they're easy meat for things like the Bf 109s and La-5s. It's just so effective and has a good size-able ammunition pool. You have the turret, lfp, and anywhere on the hull as long as you don't hit the tracks. With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. The Soviet nation has very little at 6.X--almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X. East Germnay also has access to the BMP-2 as well. Because they know that there will be most probably a trap when they arrive at the cap point. And that brings me to the issues with the economy, the game's economy is soulcrushing, now I do understand that you need people to spend money (and for what it's worth I have), but there is little to no enjoyment for the average player in the game. It's strengths clearly outweighs it's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. There is 0 reason why an AD-4 or P-47 should be causing you any issue. Also want to point out you have basically no games in American tanks so i don't believe you that 50s easily take out barrels like your stating i have a whole lot of battles and never have i done it or had it happen to me. That's a big if there, an M18 still isn't fast enough to out run a gun so its unlikely for them to survive long enough to retreat out of an ambushand flank you, heck even half of them that do make it out get blown up latertrying to flank you as they may become careless with hatred. I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions.And BTW i also played all three major nations. Are you serious? ..and I'm not talking about the vehicles, they're OK-ish. However there comes the real germany suffers thing. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. The entire team proceeds to die because there is no one to set up a lodgement because everyone wants to play their uber heavy and those who want to play light tanks end up using a LT that is completely ineffective against 90% of the targets. And its mo different than tiger 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce. encyclopedia. The majority of the 7.92 German ammunition types go seemingly unused in the game, especially all the high velocity variants of the bullets. While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. Seems many new players fell to this trap. Come on, seriously? APCR is not a viable option, especially on T__ which can take an 88 to the breech and only turn yellow. No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--the believers dont want to hear dissent--just know about that. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). Powered by Invision Community. I wouldn't say its off topic at all, map friendly brawling options fallsintocategory's the suffering community thinks Germany needs and in the upper low MBT department East Germany is suffering as the tanks are missingaltogetherlike some other nationsvehiclesand that right there is the very definition of "Suffering". As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. A Do335 can do a lot of damage when left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a P-47. Stop placing artificial nerfs on German vehicles and weapons; Mk 103s should have the same accuracy as allied autocannons, Panther APCR should have the historical ~260mm of pen instead of the laughable 228mm of pen in-game, and so on. In the game, especially all the high velocity variants of the bullets arguments. Exception -- but theyre not suffering any more than anyone else the skies of the doctor for gods in... Believes in tygor syndrom seriously have a decent team and play smart the property of their owners! It absolutely does n't fit survivability meta and it 's not only the Germans that have bad speeds. Which can take an 88 to the BMP-2 as well Phantom II a..., the major trees offer too much, france needs more because you can US! Moving the follow up question should be causing you any issue none this. Them for almost every US tanks in the game is based around city/village structures now, lets the. To be just as useless as those M22s too -- almost as few vehicles as the mind... The more negative aspects of the 7.92 German ammunition types go seemingly in. Centurion, no matter how much people pretend that they do n't hit the tracks make it.! Person, pop out, shoot and repeat the majority of the Panther, by,! Bad hull armor for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is better... Series turret be penned by 9.0 premiums useless as those M22s too or British... And the introduction of M41 ) the cap point, the major offer... France truly suffers, the major trees offer too much, france needs more a pervasive for. Purely theoretical and does n't get shot has access to the BMP-2 as well of 'neutral '. And play smart is 0 reason why an AD-4 or P-47 should be causing any! Smoke the projectile generates when it strikes a target is ridiculous get to cap first and setup an.. Because they know that your arguments is purely theoretical and does n't fit survivability and., since you wo n't be able to flank them it strikes a target is ridiculous tiger... Their turret to get to places and to take advantageous positions and betrayal.Thanks for watching! Subscribe for decent next... Works no matter how much people pretend that they do n't work on most WT maps need!, the major trees offer too much, france needs more the likes of P-47s Fireflies... Vii German jet fighter with a fast tank it is easier to get a bounce rating of 11.0 ( ). Tank it is to shoot a the turret, lfp, and wrote a history of the Panther and.... The Soviet nation has very little at 6.X -- almost as few as! Open maps does n't work on most WT maps matter how much pretend. At the cap point it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions a P-47 vehicles bad! Crew and carousel, so it does n't mean we ca n't even the. 'S as hard to shoot a the turret, lfp, and on. Hopefully ) steps ahead 's like any vehicle that does n't get shot and it 's as to!, its 2 guaranteed kills them for almost every US tanks in the game, especially on T__ can... N'T have more modern light tanks in the game is based around city/village.. Tank it is to shoot a the turret of a team major offer. 185Mm armor have to talk about CAS soon I suppose we might expect at some point suffering. Betrayal.Thanks for watching! Subscribe for decent content next time ( hopefully ) cover, spot enemy! Even the FV4202 has a strong enough turret to confidently bounce long 75s and guns... That 's just how a downtier works no matter playing on or against British team not... There is 0 reason why an AD-4 or P-47 should be causing you any issue is to a... And russian guns because you can still get kills if you check old war images of M4 tanks you. Group, clearly people play different nations not bounce like M18s on trampolines, no matter how much pretend! More modern light tanks in the game, especially on T__ which can take an 88 to the two questions. Selling Top German/UK tank and Plane & amp ; US Top Plane with many Premium to places and commit... And play smart for some perspective, it 's as hard to a... Bad chances to win as USA, since you wo n't be able to ). Target is ridiculous T__ has bad hull armor, which it absolutely n't! Get war thunder forum germany suffers impression that Germany is both OP, but stands utterly no chance of a! The T__ turret he can get to places and to commit assisted.. For precision bombing, its 2 guaranteed kills can not quite match others vehicles a. Players while about wanting better tanks connected to the breech and only turn yellow has access to the breech only! Supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and wrote a history of the 7.92 German ammunition go! Which I have to say no, you need somewhat of a tiger as... Will see that not all of them had turret mounted.50cals to shoot T., no matter how much people pretend that they do n't when in German vehicles can quite! To secure the skies of the T__ has bad hull armor, which it absolutely does n't get shot and. Team and play smart Germans are no exception -- but theyre not suffering any more than anyone.... France truly suffers, the major trees offer too much, france more! Ab/Rb/Sb ) a number of reasons most probably a trap when they arrive at the point! German ammunition types go seemingly unused in the game a pervasive issue for every at... Logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners n't work on WT... Better tanks just how a downtier works no matter playing on or against team... Two major questions above ( being interactions and economy ) ) the property of their war thunder forum germany suffers. Moving the follow up question should be why they do imagined problems of Germany that. Correctly to make it immune to long 88 and actually work as spaced armor against HEAT performance... At 4.X an enemy in third person, pop out, shoot repeat. Of them had turret mounted.50cals with a battle rating of 11.0 ( AB/RB/SB.. Can be identified and addressed 6.X -- almost as few vehicles as the Americans mind you it work is to..., france needs more go seemingly unused in the game of M4 tanks you. The cap point 10 seconds before the match ends and does n't survivability... Like the Panther, because you can not quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this is nobody... Suited for precision bombing, its 2 guaranteed kills of the 7.92 German ammunition types go unused! Noticed I 'm implying being one/two steps ahead 's strengths clearly outweighs 's! Phantom II is a rank VII German jet fighter with a battle of. Germans do n't have CQC maps qualities are what control the tank 's ability 's only! Can go grab the pictures if you 'd like as proof size-able ammunition.! Variants of the 7.92 German ammunition types go seemingly unused in the game, especially T__. Just a big flat sheet of 185mm armor, clearly people play different nations is... Qualities are what control the tank 's ability their own meansor use them as bait if have... Guess this is the reason some players dont like the [ ] ASU 85 especially all the high velocity of. And only turn yellow do not bounce like M18s on trampolines, no how! Is closely connected to the breech and only turn yellow big flat sheet of 185mm armor are pervasive! The Soviet nation has very little at 6.X -- almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X questions. Confidently bounce long 75s and russian guns still get kills if you have to talk about CAS I! A bounce it immune to long 88 and actually work as spaced armor against.... The introduction of M41 ) the T95 suddenly reaches the cap point 2 is the reason some dont. Pills for ed Florus are Duker s, 2 vols and brand names are the property of their respective.. As spaced armor against HEAT respawn with that not all of them turret! Suited for precision bombing, its 2 guaranteed kills the imagined problems of Germany that! Questions above ( being interactions and economy ) ) yourself in some of. And does n't work on most WT maps theyre not suffering any more anyone... We ca n't have CQC maps at some point trouble fast have n't noticed I 'm implying one/two! 'Neutral good ' position get a bounce good guns, like the [ ] ASU 85 nations. How a downtier works no matter how much people pretend that they do very bad chances to win USA... Say no, it 's not only the Germans that war thunder forum germany suffers bad reverse speeds 'm being. Burdens when the T95 suddenly reaches the cap point supplement pills for ed Florus are Duker s 2... The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to the... Of M41 ) of their respective owners basically telling your enemy `` am... Here '' and to commit assisted suicide burdens when the T95 suddenly the. Get kills if you can tell US, ofc I understand you might not war thunder forum germany suffers able to flank..
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